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'67 2+2 Advice & Car Sought
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TOPIC: '67 2+2 Advice & Car Sought
#75
'67 2+2 Advice & Car Sought 10 Years, 3 Months ago  
All you 2+2ers:
Below is a perfect example of why I started this site. I'm copying the text of an email I received from Kevin Maynard. Our community is still very small, but I encourage everyone to help Kevin in his quest to "replace" his father's 2+2 (or come as close as possible). Collectively we have the knowledge to speed his search, and maybe help prevent the kind of mistakes that many of us may have made in the car hobby learning process.
It's all about car guys helping car guys, and maybe saving another 2+2!

(start quote)
This is an enquiry e-mail via pontiac2plus2registry.com/ from:
Kevin <kmaynard@toddveredus.com>

My dad bought a 1967 2+2 hardtop brand new off the lot, sold it after they started having kids to get a family car. They sacrificed much for us over the years, so I've gotten the idea in my head that I'd like to replace the car he talks so fondly of. I quickly realized what a rare car he had, and that it won't be a cheap undertaking.

I've been looking off and on for about 10 years, for the right one to come across. There is one that was just on Ebay that I'm considering, he's had it for sale before, though, and I'm trying to figure out how to assess the car I'm buying. I found the VIN breakdown, Engine and Transmission Codes, but I still am not 100% sure about where to look on the car if/when I find one to buy/restore.

Is there someone to help me out with some questions, like what I should ask, where to crawl under the car and find codes, etc? Any help would be appreciated.

I will have to pay someone to do most of the restoration, but I want to go ahead and get the right car when it comes across, even if I can't afford to restore it right away.

My biggest concern is the motor; how do I know if an engine (if it's not running) is capable of being rebuilt? Is it possible for an engine to be blown/cracked/thrown bearing/whatever to the point that it is effectively worthless, even if I find that rare 2+2 with the original 428? Many I've found have 400's or some other non-original. If the 428 is repairable, I'm in good shape, but I don't want to pay for something that can't be fixed. Is there a way to test or know if it can run?

Also, can I know if it's the original motor? I can interpret the engine code if I find it, but how do I match it to the car's serial number (in the VIN)?

If we pull this off, whatever 2+2 we restore will find it's permanent home in our family.

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks.

Kevin

(end quote)
OldInjun
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#82
Re:'67 2+2 Advice & Car Sought 10 Years, 3 Months ago  
Kevin-

The best advice I have is to buy a car already restored. It's rare that someone can get their investment (money or time) back when they sell a "done" car. The buyer almost always gets the better end of that deal. This is especially true if you are going to be paying professionals for some or all of the work.

Here are some general rules to follow on your quest:
1. Learn as much as you can about the particular car model you're looking for. Many sellers don't know what they have, some do but will misrepresent what they are selling. You'll need to see through that ignorance and/or BS. It sounds as if you're taking the right steps in that regard.
2. Decide ahead of time what you want, and don't be tempted to settle for something else. Inevitably, you'll be sorry you did.
3. The more original the car, the more you'll pay. In the long run, it will be a better investment. If, however, you just want a "driver" to enjoy, and you won't be tempted to spend a fortune making it right, save your money and buy something that may have a wrong engine but looks good.
4. If it's a choice between a car that needs body/paint/interior work but is mechanically sound, or vice-versa, choose the car that needs the mechanical work .It's generally cheaper & easier than paying for cosmetics.
5. When inspecting a car, try to find someone with experience to accompany you. You'll benefit from their advice, and they may talk you out of an emotional decision. It may even be worth hiring a professional appraiser (especially if the car is a distance away). A few hundred $$ up front may save thousands $$ later.
6. For the actual inspection, wear grubbies and get down in the dirt. Look for leaking fluids. Poke around the frame, floors and trunk for metal rot. Car may be all shiny up top, ugly underneath. If the car runs, watch from behind as it drives down the street. If it moves sideways like a crab, the frame is bent.
7. If you see a lot of aftermarket Pep Boys/Advance Auto type of replacement items, it probably means the seller or a previous owner was not concerned with preserving the car, or was cutting corners elsewhere, as well.
8. Regarding your engine concerns - unless the block is cracked, most engines are rebuildable. If the engine is not running, try turning the crank pulley to make sure it's not frozen. As for the numbers, check Wallace Racing for good info on casting &stamped numbers. Unfortunately Pontiac did not start stamping the VIN on the block until 1968, so you'll have to go by engine casting and date code to judge if it's original to the car.
9. We are very fortunate in the Pontiac hobby to have easy access to documentation. Most responsible sellers will have already purchased copies of the original invoice from Pontiac Historical Services (PHS - see Links section). If not, they're readily available for $35-$50 - an excellent investment. I wouldn't buy any Pontiac until I've seen the PHS papers.

Hopefully some other members will chime in with their suggestions. We're still a small community her, but it looks like we have a relatively strong contingent of '67 owners. I would shoot them an email with your questions. I suggest you also post questions on the forums at Classical Pontiac and Performance years. Both sites have a large community of very helpful Pontiac guys.

It's a great thing you're doing for your parents. I wish you the best of luck in your search.

Jack
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#83
Re:'67 2+2 Advice & Car Sought 10 Years, 3 Months ago  
Perfect. I was groping my may through some of those topics, slowly but surely, but not all of them. Appreciate the advice, very helpful and comprehensive. I know that took some time and thought.

Dad talked a lot about the 428 and the stock chrome air intake, so I'd like to have that block, even if not the right year (found one with a 69 date coded 428, for instance). Power steering/brakes and AC would be good, too. Interior and appearance important, it would be a driver as you described it.

Of course part of me would want to make it all perfectly correct, but I like the heads up on being tempted to spend money to make it so. I see how that could be a slippery slope into spending a ton of money.

Will digest and use all of this info. I'll keep you abreast, and maybe run it past you guys when I find one I think I may pull the trigger on.

Thanks. Kevin
kmaynard
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#93
Re:'67 2+2 Advice & Car Sought 10 Years, 2 Months ago  
You might also want to join the poci (www.poci.org). The May issue of their monthly mag they had a '67 2+2 for sale for $8900.
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